For some time now, both the Australian Vaccination Network (AVN) and myself, Meryl Dorey, have stood accused of harassing Toni and David McCaffery, parents of three children; the youngest of whom, Dana, died from whooping cough in March of 2009.
Understanding the sensitivity of this issue and not wanting to increase the already unbearable pain these parents have gone through, I have stayed silent on this subject for as long as I could. At this point, however, being tried by the media, members of Stop the Australian Vaccination Network (SAVN) and the Health Care Complaints Commission (HCCC) for this supposed harassment, it is time to set the record straight.
When Dana’s death was first announced, the finger of blame was pointed squarely at unvaccinated children in general – the AVN in particular. We were virtually being accused of being responsible for the death of this baby who was 5 months too young to have been protected by vaccines. This accusation began even before Dana’s funeral with an article in the Northern Star newspaper saying that Dana had been the “victim of ignorance”.
In addition, there were many questions that arose from the information the media were reporting about Dana’s death. These included the following:
- Dana had presented to doctors several times before being diagnosed. Her mother said that her only symptoms were a runny nose and possible breathing problems.
- She was admitted to hospital with a simple runny nose and only became seriously ill after her admission.
- She was diagnosed with whooping cough within a day or two of when she was admitted to hospital when a whooping cough diagnosis generally takes 10-14 days to produce a positive result.
- The media and her family reported that her treatments had included blood transfusions; that her heart was twice its normal size; and that she had a systemic infection – none of which are normal with whooping cough. (Please note: some of this information may not have emerged until the Channel 7 Sunday Night program)
Did I try to get Dana’s hospital records?
Toni and David McCaffery have stated in the media that I tried to obtain Dana’s records from the hospitals where she was treated. This is not true.
As a result of both myself and our organisation virtually being blamed for murdering this child by media outlets and government health officials, and because of the questions outlined above, I contacted Paul Corben at the North Coast Area Health Service (NCAHS) to ask exactly how Dana was diagnosed.
Due to the uncertainty – in my mind at least – about how a whooping cough diagnosis could be made so quickly and also the correlation of Dana’s reported symptoms and treatments, I felt that these were important questions to clear up and it was my right to ask these questions – anyone could have.
The NCAHS told me that Dana’s death was determined by using a ‘quick test’. At that time, I was unfamiliar with this type of test but subsequent research has shown me that this is a test which gives false positives up to 100% of the time.
The only truly accurate test for whooping cough is a blood culture.[i], [ii] I asked the NCAHS if a blood culture had also been taken but I was told that this information could not be released. To the best of my recollection, the conversation ended there when the NCAHS official terminated the call.
I have been accused of harassing this grieving family by making this call. It is my assertion however that the official from the NCAHS has not only committed a serious breach of confidentiality by informing a third party that I had contacted him; he in fact, has harassed the McCafferys by calling a grieving family to tell them that I had asked for confirmation of Dana’s diagnosis. What possible reason could he have had for taking this action?
Have I ever contacted the McCafferys?
The only time I have ever met either Toni or David McCaffery was on the set of the Channel 7 Sunday Night program during a televised ‘debate’ on the vaccination issue. We passed and I believe we said hello. That is the only time I have ever seen them.
I have never phoned them, written them a letter by post, email or contacted them in any other way except for the once which I will describe below.
The only time I have ever had contact with the McCafferys in any way was in late 2009 when I posted a letter to the editor and a media release to their Facebook page. This was in response to complaints that the McCafferys had filed against me with the ABC regarding a radio show I had appeared on in October 2009.
The McCafferys claimed that I had provided incorrect information to the ABC, but the final outcome of the ABC’s investigation of this issue stated that the journalist had actually made a mistake when she was speaking – the error was not mine.
Despite providing information to the McCafferys in this regard, and also having my information peer-reviewed by Dr Gary Goldman, a reviewer for such publications as the New England Journal of Medicine and the Journal of the American Medical Association, to this day, the McCafferys continue to claim that I provided incorrect or misleading information to the ABC.
I felt that it was within my rights to respectfully defend myself against these accusations and Toni McCaffery stated, under my post to her Facebook page that, “Meryl has responded, as she is very entitled to. I just ask that everyone when stating their opinions is respectful and is factual.”
This is the only time I have ever made contact with this family and I do not believe that this would or should constitute harassment in any sense of the word.
My husband, Ken Dorey
The first time I heard about the accusation that my husband Ken had harassed the McCaffery family was when Steve Cannane from Lateline, pointed a microphone at me and asked why my husband had gone to see David’s parents the day before Dana’s funeral.
Ken has known Carmel and Ken McCaffery for many years. They are both members of the Big Scrub Rainforest Landcare Group and Ken has been called to their home several times to help identify birds, to remove snakes that have gotten into their kitchen and just for a cup of tea and a chat.
Approximately 2-3 days before Dana’s death, I received a call from Carmel asking me to give Ken a message that she would like him to come over to identify a frog they had found.
The McCaffery’s home is between our farm and our house so 2-3 days later, Ken went by to help them identify the frog. He remembers clearly getting out of the ute and walking up to Carmel to ask her where the frog was.
At that point, she told him that her little granddaughter had just died of whooping cough.
Ken and I were both aware that a Lennox Head child had died from whooping cough – it was in all the media – but this was the first time that either of us knew who that child was.
Ken spent between 45 minutes and an hour listening to Carmel talk about what a devastating blow this was to all their family and how her husband, Ken, was incredibly broken-up about it. At the end of the conversation, Ken remembers Carmel saying to him that the doctors told Toni and David that it was most likely that Dana had caught whooping cough from an unvaccinated child in the hospital.
Ken remembers saying, “Carmel, you must know what Meryl does. It is not as simple as that. If at any time you would like to speak with her – and I know this won’t help your grieving…”
Ken remembers Carmel shaking her head – not in an angry way – but just shaking her head, so he left it there. This was the only time my name was mentioned but the accusation seems to be that Ken went there to tell Carmel and Ken that I wanted to speak with them. This is not true and our family would never intrude on a grieving parent or grandparent in that manner.
Ken and Carmel spoke for about 10 to 15 minutes more and then, someone else arrived on the McCaffery’s farm so Ken took that as his cue to leave. Until that point in time, nobody else was there – just Carmel and Ken McCaffery and my husband, Ken.
There have been accusations made that Ken knew that Dana was the child that died and that he went to the home to say that I wanted to speak with them. That it was the day before the funeral and the house was filled with grieving relatives preparing food and getting things ready. This is not true.
Neither Ken nor I were aware that Dana was the child involved; her name was not published in the papers until one or two days after Ken’s visit and her funeral was even later then that.
We understand how, at a time like this when preparations were being made for this terribly tragic funeral of a precious and beloved baby, things can be forgotten and events take on new meanings, but neither Ken nor I would ever be so callous as to visit a grieving family to discuss vaccination. Ken was there at Carmel’s request and left after listening to her talk about her family’s grief and offering his condolences.
This is not harassment.
In conclusion
The AVN has over 8,000 present and former members. Many of these families have children who have either been killed or injured by vaccines. In my 17 years of working with this organisation, I have cried with these families, shared their grief, tried to help them in any way I could including opening my home to them many times when they needed a place to stay.
Some of them have stayed here for months – some for weeks – some for only a day or two – but I believe that if you were to ask any of them if they believed that I or anyone else from the AVN would harass a family who had just lost a child, the answer would be a resounding NO!
I am the mother of a vaccine injured child myself so I have a special understanding of what it is to grieve for lost possibilities – but not – thank God – of what it is to lose a child. That is a grief I hope I never know – one no parent should ever have to face.
But whether a child dies from a disease or a vaccine, they deserve and do receive the same sympathy and respect from me and from all AVN members I have ever known.
I never have and never will harass or hurt a grieving parent and anyone who knows me – or knows anyone in my family – would say that without question.
I also know that the members of our committee would never have done such a thing.
Via the media, I have asked the McCafferys several times for the names of the people who have written to harass them and stated that if they are AVN members, they will be instantly ejected from our organisation.
To date, this information has not been provided to me. These accusations of harassment in the media, despite any evidence of what any fair person would actually call harassment, has now gotten to the point where even defending myself and the AVN will be considered by some to be harassment.
Despite that, I hope that this has answered some questions people may have had about my dealings with the McCaffery family and whether or not there was any harassment involved.
I welcome your questions and will be happy to answer any and all of them as fully and openly as I can.
[i] Curbing false positives and pseudo-epidemics, The Lancet Infectious Diseases, Volume 7, Issue 3, Page 186, March 2007
[ii] Faith in Quick Test leads to epidemic that wasn’t, http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/22/health/22whoop.html?_r=1
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I’m going to just pick one thing out of that mess above or I’ll be here all night.
Meryl, you keep demonstrating your ignorance by referring to PCR as the “quick test” and casting unscientific aspersions about its reliability.
If you would care to check this, you might find that the sensitivity is lacking (so false NEGATIVES are a problem, especially late in the course of the illness) but the specificity is 98% giving a positive predictive value of 95%, which is pretty good in my opinion. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC104608/
That was the first study I found on a quick internet search. There may be different PPVs, because that also depends on the pretest probability (which in a baby with severe pertussis is extremely high, so the test in Dana would be expected to be a greater than 95% positive predictive value. Your “up to 100% false positive” or whatever crap it was that you were saying is wilfully ignorant. Besides which, Dana’s case would’ve been confirmed by culture. The coroner does investigate these things.
Your lack of understanding of the complications is also astounding. Stop casting doubt over the facts. THis baby clearly died from pertussis so leave the family alone and do some real research. Start by learning about PCR because I’ve seen you make these statements more than once, and I can correct them with a science background and a 30 second internet search to check before I pull some stupid percentage (and 100% is a pretty stupid percentage) out of my arse.
Thanks
Disgusted, im glad to hear your child made it through whooping cough ok and we all have kids that are sick in different respects and it is hard. But i think the simple FACTS need to be made in regard to these diseases and that is that these diseases were declining before the introduction of vaccines and it is only increased health and better sanitation that keeps the numbers of these diseases down. Just look at the 3rd world where these things don’t exist isn’t that proof enough. Why put any kids at risk of the effects of vaccinations when there are other natural ways of keeping a string immune system. I know 2 mothers who have 3 kids with autism that say it happened right after vaccinations and I for 1 would rather my child have whooping cough. (not trying to down play the risks of whooping cough because I know it can be deadly and I do feel for you and your child)
so why wear a seat belt, if you can still die in a car accident whilst still wearing one…….
If wearing a seatbelt meant exposing you or your child to heavy metals, toxic ingredients, adventitious animal viruses and bacteria and genetically engineered products, many people would probably choose not to wear them. Since seatbelts don’t do any of these things, I would say that your analogy is a bit ridiculous.
I appreciate your calm and response and welcome for information . I think that I made it quite clear that the vaccine was what stopped my child from being hospitalised and stopped the rest of my family contracting whooping cough. Nothing is guarenteed 100% and I remember I was disappointed that my child still got sick, but I did know it had an approximate 15% failure rate and she was just unfortunate enough to fall within this. I do believe by getting vaccines we are protecting the vulnerable. Unvaccinated you have a 80-90% chance of contracting the disease if exposed, if vaccinated a 10-20% chance of getting the disease so I feel the potential for us to be carriers is drastically reduced (studies have shown that asymptomtic carriers tend to not transfer the disease) and if for some reason I did ever infect someone else, I could say I did all I could to prevent doing that. I mean, if licing conditions had more to do with catching whooping cough than immunisation status, why are we still getting it? My kids honestly, rarely get ill. We live as holistically as we can (hence why I asked how come you have no concern for the chemicals in your skin products as you do for the contaminants in vaccines because the skin as our largest organ absorbs A LOT so these can be just as damaging in the long term can they not? Especially since we apply it everyday as opposed to being vaccinated which we are not exposed to daily) but I still believe in vaccination but thankfully none of my children have ever had a reaction to a vaccine, I do feel for the fact your child had a reaction, but your child is still with you today, Dana is no longer with her parents. Looking at death rates from disease in comparison to vaccination, there are more deaths and long term disability associated with actually contracting the disease, that is why I believe in vaccination, because like most parents I want my children to livelong and healthy lives and for their children to not live in a world where all these diseases have been brought back. I just don’t see how you can dispute the fact that vaccination does work! You can dispute that what they put in them may not be 100% safe but I do think they are the reason for these diseases having been eradicated. Pertussis unfortunately seems to just have the highest failure rate but mmr are rare these days because they do work. I have the same thinking as Martin and believe that you can be “a little bit immune” as you put it. How otherwise do you explain how someone can get chicken pox twice but not to the same extent as the first time? Probably because their body has developed some form of protection but not enough to completely stop them getting the disease. This is why I believe in vaccination despite my child getting sick, my other children stayed well thanks to vaccination, my sixk child only got mildly ill, thankfully her coughing fits never resulted in an ER dash like some I know. I am not against your or anyones right to choose Meryl, I just don’t think you correctly state some facts which may cause some people to not vaccinate on those grounds. For example, you say that whooping cough is just a “bad cough” for you r kids (were you tested? did it take over 10 days for your result? if you believe the test is not accurate could you be wrong in saying you had whooping cough? these are honestly just genuine questions).. To me I could never describe pertussis as a bad cough, it is strong enough to cause children to die, to get brain damage from losing oxygen etc. I just think you need to get some facts sorted out and have reliable information so people wishing to investigate both sides of the story have the full facts. I would hate for someone to tell themselves that whooping cough is just a mild disease and so they don’t need to vaccinate and then have their baby die, surely you do not want that on your conscience either? This is just one example of many facts you state that may mislead parents. Again, I am not against peoples right to make an informed decision but that decision needs to be on plain fact and contrasted to other facs. You need to say that 1 in 200 die from whooping cough yet there are no documented deaths from the pertussis vaccine however 1% of children vaccinated may experience a moderate servere reaction, I think we all need to see both side in straight fact! I feel like you try to hide the fact and downplay the fact that Dana died of pertussis, you need to acknowledge this happens, just as it needs to be acknowledged that there are complications with vaccines to (which the latest immunise asutralia book does, it tells you exactly the percent of children who may experience a reaction to the vaccine and I have a great Dr who is very open about vaccination also and told us not to get the flu shots for example so not all Drs pro-vaccine for everything and they care) I totally agree that the strain has probably mutated hence the increase in cases and thus the vaccine may not be protecting all however, could it not be said that it has mutated purely because there are unvaccinated people who provide more avenues so to speak for the virus to mutate? Just because there is 90% vaccination rates does not mean 90% of the population is immune because immunity wanes and when I refer to unvaccinated people spreading the disease, I am more referring to adults because most are no longer immune. I mean even natural immunity wanes so one cannot expect that a vaccine would offer lifelong immunity either. As you state, we are all entitled to our own opinions but the difference between me and you is that I don’t form a foundation and spew out facts that are not current and not always correct and claim them to be. Yes, everything I have said here is emotional because I am not a Dr, of course I am going on my own beliefs/opinions, I don’t claim to be doing anything else, I just wanted to say that it would be nice if you could give only credible inforamtion and not harrass a poor family in your persuit of it. I was true when I said I know people who don’t vaccinate (we both respect each others decisions) that do not believe in your group because of these said reasons which is saying a lot about how you are percieved to me.. Sorry. I don;t mean to come and bad mouth you on your own page but unfortunately when you started harrassing a family who have lost their child it really made me upset and they had proof when they interviewed you yet you still deny it? I guess as a parent, I put myself in their shoes and it broke my heart that they lost their child and then had to deal with nasty hate mail from your group. Not nice at all 😦 Once again, I am sorry, I won’t come by here anymore and ramble ha ha. Every parent has the right to choose, I hope they explore all avenues and not take the decision lightly and beyond everything else, they need to know they can live with the decision they make, as I said, I couldn’t live through watching my chil cough until they went blue knowing I could have offered them some form of protection in a vaccine but that is me 🙂 Take care and farewell.
Why oh why is there not a herbal remedy for stupidity and a lack of morals? To clarify, yes my child was vaccinated against pertussis. I questioned vaccines, I read up on everything I possibly could and spoke with those on both side of the fence so to speak, I have now lived through the disease despite vaccination and let me say from personal experience… The needle was a lot better than getting the disease and I thank God I had the sense to vaccinate my children and myself in the end because I truly believe my child would have been worse off and that my whole family would have been struck down with this terrible preventable disease. I am not here to say people should or should not vaccinate as I choose not to do flu vaccines, the Hep B for newborns and Cervical Cancer Vaccine are questionable at times to me only because I know that by not getting these vaccines, I am not putting anyone else at risk but myself so the decision is a different one in that regard also but the MMR and DTP will always be on my list because I am sick of hearing non-vaxxers say that I should not be concerned if my child is vaccinated but there is a window where babies are not, and heart kids and cancer kids cannot be and they are the most vulnerable, they seem to not concern themselves with the fact that their grandchildren may one day live in a world where all these diseases have returned because people have stopped immunising. Ask anyone who has lived through the era of no vaccinations and seen the damage these diseases cause and they will tell you they would take a needle over that again anyday. Yes, people die from vaccinations and are injured by them and it is devastating but there is no denying the fact taht more die from the disease. Anyway.. as I said, I am not here to tell people what they should or should not do, I just believe they should all be entitled to FACTUAL information and the information provided by Meryl is misleading and she is not the kind of human being I would want to take any advice from considering her ethics (seriously Meryl what kind of woman tries to access someones records, can you please put yours on public display if you feel this information should be so widely avaialable?). In dissecting anything by her it is obvious she has extreme logical flaw in her arguements. Thouless referred to these as ‘tricks’ used to distract readers from the limitations within ones arguements. Let me give you some examples incase you are not familiar with his work: The use of emotionally toned words, making statements in which ‘all’ is implied but only some true, diversions to other side issues, unsound arguements, repeated affirmation, prestige by false credentials and arguements of mere analogy. Any of that sound familiar??? To me it does and I urge any parent reading this rubbish to please read further into vaccination and make your decision based on the facts, and I pose to all those parents considering not vaccinating.. Could you live with yourself if your child contracted one of these diseases and died or if they passed one of these diseases on to a family member and they died? You see, I figured in the end, if my children got injured from vaccines, that I was trying to do the right thing and protect them, but if they contracted these diseases and died, I would never ever forgive myself, nor would I if I were the one to cause death to another family member thanls to my negligence when it could have been so easily prevented, that was how I came to my decision in the end. You can believe in your conspiracy theories about pharma and their big $$$, as soon as the flu vaccines had problems they withdrew them, if they had been concerend about $$$ they would have just allowed us to keep having them. Maybe Meryl should be more concerned about the chemicals in the beauty products she is selling than what is in the vaccines because they contain so many more that aren’t tested as thoroughly. Something to think about anyway. Health and happiness to you all.
Dear disgusted –
You say that “the needle was a lot better than getting the disease”. You miss the point – your child GOT the needle and still got the disease. So what did the needle do for them?
You need to look at your logic, step back from fear and work out why you feel so strongly that vaccination is the only way to stay healthy for everyone when so many people, like your child – get vaccinated and get the diseases anyway. Try to get away from your emotions for a while and look at this as dispassionately as you can. Are you sure that vaccines are effective and if not – why are you using them?
Please feel free to ask any questions about vaccinations and to research this issue from both sides using factual information from medical research.
>>
I do not believe this was a preventable disease, as I know people who have been vaccinated and have had whooping cough.
>>
That sums up the problem here. The above statement is not logical.
Just because some people do not develop a full immunity fro It is like saying seat belts don’t work because some people wear them and still die in a car crash.
Most people develop good immunity, and even in many that don’t fully sero convert there is still some protection – that is the disease is not as bad as it otherwise would have been.
there is no doubt that by and large most cases of whooping cough are preventable.
Martin, I feel that your point is weak here.
What is full immunity? Can you be a little bit immune? Isn’t that like being a little bit pregnant? You are either immune or you’re not. Immunity means you don’t get the disease – end of story.
And if there is “no doubt that by and large most cases of whooping cough are preventable”, why are we seeing studies coming out stating that the pertussis vaccine cannot prevent infection with or asymptomatic carriage of whooping cough disease? And why are we seeing studies coming out of the US stating that:
1- The rates of pertussis are identical in areas where there is high or low vaccination rates (studies identical to those conducted in the UK in the 1970s and 1980s which showed that socio-economic status and living conditions had more to do with susceptibility to pertussis than vaccination rates).
2- The vaccine no longer matches the circulating strain of pertussis in the community meaning that it is useless against the current disease.
3- The vaccine may actually be causing this shift away from the vaccine strains and towards a more virulent form of pertussis that is causing an increase in infant deaths.
4- vaccinated adults are the biggest reservoir for disease.
I think that all of this information belies your assertion that “most cases of whooping cough are preventable”. Where is your evidence to back up this statement?
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This madness is still happening
They act as our saviors by creating even MORE vaccines to fix the problems they originally caused.
They must be laughing themselves silly at the gullible general public.
“Preventing ear infections in the future: Delivering vaccine through the skin”:
http://www.physorg.com/news162134969.html
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Vaccines against stress, cocaine addiction, cigarette smoking…wherever there is $$$$ to be made, the drug companies will be there to take advantage. And if people are dumb enough to think that a shot will be the answer to all their ills, well, there will be a market for the gullible.
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To all of you skeptics (American spelling) and experts out there who seem to be the ultimate gatekeepers of anything to do with health or science (and now even free-speech and other personal rights, apparently), I’d like you to explain an episode (of many) in history which seemed to be one of the main factors in the polio epidemic of the 40s/50s/60s. This particular scientific/medical practice was widely accepted by all the “experts” at the time, an unfortunately, the general population of us dunces were too trusting to ask many questions.
Remember when doctors were slicing most of the tonsils out of kids back in the 40s/50s/60s? Well, those devices endowed upon us by God were Designed to fight infection. Unfortunately we listened to “science” and the “experts” like good little sheep during that era and sent MOST of our children and many adults to the immune-system slaughter.
Take a look at these mainstream articles out of Time Magazine and the New York Times fom back in the 40s and 50s which confirm that polio was MOST LIKELY a man-made disease. Couple that with the fact that DDT was sprayed indiscrimately and doctors had also convinced women that breast-feeding was barbaric, we had created the perfect-storm for many diseases to gain a death-grip on many nations which followed these “scientific” principles:
Time Magazine from Monday, Sept 14th, 1942:
Medicine: Tonsils and Polio
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,802455,00.html
Time from 1954:
Medicine: Tonsils & Bulbar Polio
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,823341,00.html
NY Times Headline – May 13, 1946: (article is available for purchase)
POLIO DANGER NOTED IN TONSIL REMOVAL
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30D1EFF3D5C107A93C1A8178ED85F428485F9
These SCIENTIFIC articles are far from the only evidence I have of tonsillectomies being a major factor in the mass-destruction caused by an otherwise practically harmless disease, nor are tonsillectomies the only blunder I can point to in past or recent history which should behoove us regular dunces out here to ALWAYS ask questions and NEVER completely trust the so-called experts.
By the way, I’m not anti-science. I’m against charlatans hiding behind the moniker of ‘science’ as they slice their destructive path through a wide sector of the human population. Josef Mengele was one of these charlatans who masqueraded as a ‘scientist’.
Bottom line – All of us regular-folk out here have the ultimate authority over our bodies, minds, and spirits. When the natives start getting restless, the “experts” had better take notice.
This is so good to point out Patrick. And I have an article by a Dr McCloskely (remembered spelling – this is not yet scanned but will be shortly so I can post it here when it is) all about this 3-5 times increase in the risk of paralytic polio if tonsil and / or adenoid tissue (lymph tissue – that is meant to be an important part of our circulatory immune system!) is removed. In addition, the article discusses the increase of what is known as provocation polio. That is paralytic polio (remember that 999 out of 1,000 people who contract polio will only have a stomach virus and develop life-long immunity – the paralytic form is rare) that is provoked through the use of injections such as vaccinations (this was before the polio vaccine when all vaccinations were given by injection and if someone received a vaccine in the right thigh, the paralysis would start there, etc.)
In the article, the good doctor asks the question – should we let the parents know about this risk? The answer was – no – let the doctors know and ask them to be sure to only remove tonsils when it is medically called for and to be ‘careful’ vaccinating during summer months because we can’t say anything that would bring into disrepute any medical procedure whether it be vaccination or surgery.
So, because parents were not alerted, tonsils were routinely removed until the early 1970s and children continued to get provocation polio. It has been estimated that as much as 95% of all cases of paralytic polio were iatrogenic or caused by medical procedures. And yet, the vaccines are credited with the decline in polio. There are too many questions and too many people saying – stop asking!
My Mother passed away from cancer.
I took care of her till the day she died. I witnessed the progression as the disease passed through her, and took care of her to the day she died.
So when I say i hope Meryl Dorey, and those who share similar beliefs, also suffer the same fate, you can understand the depth of my feelings.
I hope Meryl Dorey continues her course…..because of her the death toll mounts. Hopefully she and hers will become part of the awful statistics…because Meryl and hers have already killed enough.
I do not address my reply to K.Keir of lunatic fringe but to those reading this who, like myself, believe in free choice.
I want you all to read K. Keir’s letter and realise the following:
1- Those who oppose us are vicious and filled with hate. They wish us to die when all we want is health and freedom of choice. They send us death when we send love. Karma is a powerful thing.
2- Those of us who have children who are vaccine injured and family who have been injured by medical procedures should know that if it were up to people such as this, we would no longer have the right to say no to anything that the government or the medical community say we need. Do you want to live in K. Keir’s country? I know I don’t!
3- I will NOT be ceasing my efforts on behalf of the thousands of families both here in Australia and overseas who have gifted me with their support, their trust and their love. For 17 years, I have been fighting for freedom of choice and the right to full information on this and all other medical procedures. I have been fighting for my children, for you and your children – even for K. Keir – and with the help of those who believe as I do, that freedom is worth fighting for – we will succeed.
there is a lot of pain and a lot of bigotry going on here.
To obfiscate inveigle and deceive. who said that?
truth what is truth, is truth a perception. what you percieve to be true you believe to be true. so where does that leave truth.
is science truth or a limited perception of reality.(capra)
if every one has their own truth and sticks doggedly to it where is the progress, there can be none.
never in our history has so much information been at our finger tips, yes we must be careful, check our sources be a heathy sceptic but to denigh outright any thing that doesnt fit under our rock, well thats a bit sad a touch small minded and insular, come on people put the pain and ego’s away and start thinking.
if you still don’t agree fine! but dont just use the pain body and mouth off for a second or two of gratification.
where does this come from? i read ive been soaking up life for 50 plus years. no point in getting older if you don’t get any wiser. not to say i’m wise i just hope one day that i might be.
A child is never too young to be protected by vaccines. They may be to young to receive them directly, but herd immunity protects them from the moment of birth, when the rest of us are vaccinated.
That is your belief and you are entitled to it. But we are talking about science here and if herd immunity truly provided the protection you think it does, why have we seen vaccination rates increase by 24% in Australia and the incidence of the disease go up more than 50 times? Why are we seeing similar increases in pertussis in the US where less than 1% of children are not vaccinated due to legal compulsion? Trite phrases may make you feel better, but unless they are backed up by evidence, they are simply that – trite phrases.
Oh and false positives? My whole family was swabbed and only one came back positive and within a day or two of the positive my child was whooping so bad. So it is not 100% false positives… The lies just keep coming.
Was your child vaccinated against whooping cough?
Sorry that should read 48 hours. So if we got a positive in 48 hours how come you think you cannot?
Stayed silent? What a lie. You have done anything but. On numerous occasions I have read countless WRONG accusations by you in regard to the McCafferys and I am now totally disgusted by you and your organisation. As someone who questioned vaccinations, I would NEVER rely on ANY information you give out and I know non-vaccinators who feel the same way about you. You spread absolute rubbish, people need FACTUAL information on vaccines NOT lies. I agree with Nicola, stop acting like a victim, Dana and her family are the victims in this. Shame on the whole AVN for the pain they have caused them. Oh and for the record, we got our positive whooping cough swab within 24 hours so it can be done.. Really Meryl, I just have no words for you that are in any way kind so I will end here.
You are entitled to your opinion. Please take the time to read the links I provided on the effectiveness of the quick test.
Unbelievable just what sort of people make up the SAVN movement. Absolutely no class, no humility, just a totalitarian’s belief that they possess the complete truth and nobody else’s opinion is of any consequence unless they happen to agree with them. They must be great people to know.
SAVN, by its very name and purpose – to stop a non-profit parent’s and health professional support group – is anti-choice, anti-speech and anti freedom. By their language, abusive attitude and threats, they are a hate group. I don’t think I would like to try an befriend any of them. Anyone who works with people like this is not deserving of my friendship or respect.
If you make public statements about someone, attempt to access their medical records, suggest repeatedly that they are lying about something rather important like the cause of their daughter’s death and then have the temerity to whinge about it as though you are the victim, I think that may count has harrassment, even if you haven’t directly contacted them.
As for those people whose children were injured by vaccines, they are in a separate category to those people who merely believe their children to have been injured by vaccines. Belief is also not evidence. I don’t feel sorry for you, but I certainly feel sorry for your poor son, whose ‘caring’ mother paraded him for years in front of any kind of camera claiming he was damaged.
I think that if you are making public statements on behalf of the lunatic fringe, you must expect people to criticise you for it. Publicly. If you tell lies and then deny it, you must expect to be criticised and laughed at.
Nicola – you are a great ambassador for the septic SAVN. Keep talking – you haven’t disappointed yet.
I’m starting to wonder whether you have any ability at all to empathise. You are still behaving as though YOU are the victim, when it is your own selfish, cruel and unethical behaviour which is continuing to cause distress to the McCaffery family.
If you had the brain you claim to, you would be ashamed.
And you are missing the point completely – I have not harassed anyone – you have to contact people to harass them and I have not done that bar a message on a facebook page.
You are also unable to empathise with the thousands of families whose children have been either killed or injured by vaccines. You are selfish, cruel and completely unethical and are causing great distress to parents of vaccine-injured children including myself. Please stop harassing me in this way.
Meryl,
That’s a curious distinction, and I need to correct you on a few factual errors there. There is no such thing as “Western” medicine. What constitutes the standard medicine is borne out of decades of research, and is being continually revised. This is where the science comes in. The purpose of science is to test therapies, treatments, drugs etc. It does not provide a philosophy on life.
Your comment that there is a drug and disease-based philosophy in standard medicine is incorrect. The underpinning philosophy in medicine is that it has to act in the best interest of the patients, and the best way to find out if a therapy does or doesn’t work is through science.
Do you agree that science is the best way to determine the efficacy of treatment?
Secondly, I’m curious as to your use of the word “allopathy” as it is a term commonly used by homeopaths to distinguish their therapy from so-called western medicine. “Allopathy” is a false distinction, as much as “western” is.
Can I ask you a question? Do you subscribe to the belief that homeopathy is a valid mode of therapy?
Regards,
Ilijas.
Iljas – this post was about one particular situation – the fact that I and members of the AVN were accused in the media of being responsible for the death of a 4-week old child from pertussis. I was also accused of harassing this family. I believe that my post has proven that these accusations were incorrect.
My own personal health philosophy is none of your business.
If you would like to look up the definition of allopathy, please use a dictionary – there are many you can access on line for free.
It’s time to put this whole thing to bed. Vaccinating all and sundry will not bring Dana back, rehashing this story over and over in the media or anywhere will not bring Dana back. It is sad that this has happened, but arguing about who did what will not change anything.
I do not believe this was a preventable disease, as I know people who have been vaccinated and have had whooping cough.
Andy,
In my reply I did not mention anything about vaccinations, for or against, that’s not why I posted (just here to give some information) and please let me know if anything I wrote was untrue, I’d be happy to hear your corrections and clarify them for you.
Thanks
Meryl,
What do you mean by the “paradigm” in which the doctors are trained?
A paradigm is a world view in simple terms. So most allopathic physicians are trained in the Western medical paradigm. Some of them escape that drug and disease-based philosophy and (for instance) join organisations such as ACNEM in Australia or the AAPS and IMCV in the US. That is a different paradigm – more concerned with prevention and health promotion than with treatment and allopathic specialties.
Tom, many thanks for your input to my queries. Your suggestions are just that, and I know they are not 100% correct. Only the establishment could answer correctly and someone already asked them …. and as you are aware, it spiralled pearshape from then on.
Perhaps this is why the question was raised initially.
You say, ” I do take objection when people questions the motives and skills of the doctors and nurses who dedicate their time and effort to help take care of sick babies”.
It is extremely naive for you to ignore the fact that doctors are the 3rd leading cause of death in USA and we all saw the recent article on medical establishment caused deaths in Australia. Sure, our local nurses and doctors do their best. They follow their training. They are obedient.
One wonders why you, are so convinced, that vaccines cannot be questioned, and one also wonders what exactly, rules you. It looks like you have been brainwashed and anyone who questions your stand, and your acceptance, that injecting chemicals into a newborn is … stupid. I think otherwise. And yet you and your group want me to die and be shot in the head ? Tom, I urge you to learn how to meditate. It soothes, and you will find peace. There is no need for you to be so angry and at war with others.
Thanks for all your hard work, compassion, generous sharing of knowledge and support for families who seek it. I think you’re doing a fantastic job and it’s usually people who speak the truth who get yelled at the loudest. So, keep on speaking the truth, it needs to be told.
Shotinfo – don’t you think it would be in the best interests of the AVN if you stuck to information and statistics pertaining to the Australian media, especially as Direct-to-Consumer advertising is illegal in Australia? And maybe if you mean the industry then why write “companies” and not “industry” in the first place.
If I had said Australian media, it would have indicated that I was talking about the Australian media. Most of these major corporations are multi-national – we live in a society of global financial interests – so I was using global information. Also, regarding the word companies rather than industry – I would think that the use of the plural – companies – rather than company – and the term pharmaceutical and chemical companies rather than naming any one – would have indicated to most people that I was talking about a sector rather than any one particular firm.
And honestly, why when children are dying and being injured by vaccines on a daily basis, are you worried about such stupid, nit-picking issues.
If you want to debate the vaccination issue – if you think that you can prove that vaccines are safe and effective, please do. Otherwise, stop wasting my time with this garbage.
I noted that there were a few queries that I though I could clarify.
Andy had a question about how whooping cough can be diagnosed so early into an admission. The clinical history and findings would make most doctors suspicious of pertussis ie a baby with a runny nose and a paroxysmal cough followed by apnoea. A high lymphocyte count would make you even more suscpicious (explanation to follow) and most doctors would treat at this stage even before a confirmatory test (ie there is a high pre-test probability). Most tertiary hospitals can run a pertussis PCR in < 24 hrs if required. A positive test would confirm the diagnosis. Even if the test is crap (and neither crap nor perfect…somewhere in between) the positive predictive value of the test is so high because of the high pre-test probability that you can make the diagnosis there and then with a high degree of confidence.
In terms of the blood transfusion, it was probably an exchange transfusion. A well known complication of pertussis is lymphocytosis (high lymphocyte count). This causes sludging in the pulmonary vessels due to the high viscosity of the blood resulting in pulmonary hypertension and right heart failure (this contributed to the enlarged heart). You can perform an exchange transfusion to try and reduce the lymphocyte count, but the pulmonary hypertension may not improve. If the other options to manage the pulmonary hypertension don't work (ie heavy paralysis, sedation and nitric oxide) then you're left with ECMO as the only option (which was mentioned by the McCafferies).
I hope that helps
My final word…I don't care about all the mud slinging between the AVN/SAVN, but I do take objection when people questions the motives and skills of the doctors and nurses who dedicate their time and effort to help take care of sick babies. From my experience their intentions are to always act in the best interest of the child.
Dear Tom,
If I’ve answered you twice, I apologise. I was in the middle of replying and it seems to have disappeared so I will try again.
I thank you for your respectful tone and for offering up your information to us.
I don’t believe that anyone has questioned the motives of the doctors and other health professionals in this case – I am sure they did the best they could within the paradigm in which they were trained. And I know that they would have worked their hardest and done their damndest to make sure that Dana didn’t die – nobody wants to see a baby sick or die. I don’t believe that anyone has questioned these aspects of Dana’s care.
Again, thank you very much for sharing your obviously superior knowledge with us – it’s much appreciated.
That’s a very interesting point Martin has made.
Marge Innoverra states “Meryl, since you’re American, let me respond to this post in American: You’re a lying sack of shit. There’s a job for you at Fox News.”
Has Fox news got an opinion on Marge? – just to balance things up.
Is Marge of French heritage? or perhaps English? – Is Meryl an indiginous American, or was she originally of British origin?
Naturally, if one was Zambian, where would one’s comments fit then?
It is quite apparent that Marge Innoverra is a racist and to be very open, we have no room in Australia for racists. Marge should be totally ashamed of herself – but being an assumed name, she is probably a he.
Please just stop discussing the McCaffereys on this site.
I will discuss what I have been unfairly accused of. Please stop using this grieving family for your own ends. Take a look at the foulness you are surrounded by Shelley and ask yourself how you ever got involved with such a horrible, destructive, angry group of people. Is that really what you want?
Dear Meryl, As you know I have been studying and writing about the pharmaceutical lobby that promotes allopathic medicine and vaccines and campaigns against alternative medicine, for the last twenty years. These groups include Skeptics, the American Council Against Health Fraud, the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry (CSI) and many others, which are now proliferating in Australia. These groups came into existence in the 1980’s, in the US and Britain and have now gone global.
However, while these groups, in Europe and the US, indulge in propaganda, distortion, rigged research, character assassination, I have never seen them use foul language and ignorance with such gay abandon. That this commentator fails to see that s/he is undermining their own cause and that of their organisations, is a true reflection of their failure to support a rational debate. Do you think this person is a member of HCCC?
Continue to be proud of your organisation and your work in the public interest, your article above is a master class in writing for a heart-felt cause, your rationality, humanity and intelligence shines through.
If you could get your blog on AOA, I’m sure that there are many US citizens who would wish to question Innovera’s bizarre attack on their language skills.
Martin, your experience in this area is unique and I’m glad that this kind of violence does not exist everywhere because it would be frightening if it did! It’s hard enough to take just having it here in Australia.
I think that those who read this blog and follow the AVN at all would be able to see that the abuse only goes one way – from SAVN to us. People are not stupid though those at SAVN continually seem to feel that everyone who is not a ‘scientist’ hasn’t got enough brain cells to rub together to make a decision about what to have for breakfast – let alone how to care for their families.
I really appreciate your very kind words and had sent this blog to Kim and Anne – if you think there is something else I should do, please do let me know. There is already a large presence in the US and the UK watching what both the Australian government and SAVN are doing with great interest. The more we can raise awareness of those bullies who believe they have the right to attack parents who disagree with their stance on health, the better.
Dorey, you’ve lied from beginning to end. Toni has addressed your lies on Dana’s Memorial Facebook.
If you haven’t liked the media hotseat you’ve been in for the last few weeks, you’re going to like it even less in the coming weeks.
You’ve got a bucket of cheek to call ANYONE vicious, you ghoul.
Hope your immigration status is in order. The only thing which will stop you being the most reviled woman in Australia is being deported, which you should be- right spanking now.
Marge, you are just digging a deeper and deeper hole for yourself and your whole sick ‘movement’. Perhaps if you stopped threatening and started speaking like a normal human being, it might be easier to deal with you and your friends. But I’m not sure you know how.
You wanted proof that you lie?
You have said on the AVN website and Twitter “Did you know: That pharmaceutical & chemical companies are the largest buyers of advertising? “
A quick check with the industry publication, the US “Advertising Age” gave the most recent statistics on world-wide expenditure on company advertising.
Procter & Gamble Co. 1 $9.73 billion
Unilever 2 $5.72 billion
L’Oreal 3 $4.04 billion
General Motors Co. 4 $3.67 billion
Toyota Motor Corp. 5 $3.20 billion
Coca-Cola Co. 6 $2.67 billion
Johnson & Johnson 7 $2.60 billion
Ford Motor Co. 8 $2.45 billion
Reckitt Benckiser 9 $2.37 billion
Nestlé 10 $2.31 billion
Volkswagen 11 $2.31 billion
Honda Motor Co. 12 $2.22 billion
Mars Inc. 13 $2.00 billion
McDonald’s Corp. 14 $1.97 billion
Sony Corp. 15 $1.85 billion
GlaxoSmithKline 16 $1.83 billion
Deutsche Telekom 17 $1.81 billion
Kraft Foods 18 $1.79 billion
Nissan Motor Co. 19 $1.72 billion
Walt Disney Co. 20 $1.59 billion
Danone Groupe 21 $1.58 billion
General Electric Co. 22 $1.55 billion
Time Warner 23 $1.53 billion
PSA Peugeot Citroen 24 $1.51 billion
Pfizer 25 $1.51 billion
You will notice that the first company in the list which has any real pharmaceutical business is Johnson & Johnson, but their major business is in health care products, bandaids, shampoos, etc. They came in at Number 7, and the first real pharmaceutical company was GlaxoSmithKline who came in at Number 16.
For someone who claims that she is “Australia’s leading vaccine researcher”, this is a real clanger. Nobody could be that incompetent, this statement was an outright lie.
(Peter Bowditch was the first to notice this one, but unlike you, Meryl, I check my sources before quoting them.)
Kenny – the difference is that neither you nor your leader knows how to read. I did not say individual companies, did I? I said pharmaceutical and chemical companies – eg, the industry as a whole.
Please read the following – http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080105140107.htm
You guys just show how horrible you are every time you write something. Have a thought about what image you really want to project to the world. But then again, it doesn’t matter because you are all too chicken to use your own names anyway.
Oh Meryl,
You inspire me with your openess and honesty. I appreciate and applaud your passion as a caring and compassionate mother and friend to many. Thank you for being so strong as to face up to all this drama on behalf of we informed parents who have trusted our own voices and chosen not to vaccinate.
I followed through with taking full responsibility for my families health and wellbeing with alternate health choices provided by dedicated alternate practitioners and wise concious eating habits. Thankfully they have been very healthy and now as adults ranging from 27 to 33 years of age they appreciate the decision I made.
Thank you for all the work you do to provide tha facts that I never had. I trusted what little information I had which was mostly from health orientated books about good nutrition.
I hope and pray that this abuse of you and AVN will cease and that those who have caused such pain will be called to answer the excellent questions and issues from your article.
As a family we experienced the hurt and doubt cast on our decisions not to vaccinate when a baby in our extended family died after several days in hospital and of course over time “whopping cough” are the words that the media continue to cite as the cause.
This was not the reason given by the family at the time of death, and they said the doctors said there could have been a number of reasons, but no one over-all diagnosis was used. The media have since stated otherwise to push the “vaccinate to avoid whopping cough” drama.
Is there any wonder people are afraid to speak out about their personal experiences when they are riduculed and abused by bullies…
Thank you and please continue to be strong in your example of truth and respect for people and freedom of choice.
Gee Meryl, you said above: “What have I lied about? What proof do you have that I’ve lied?”
Well, how about this?
In the AVN “Living Wisdom” email newsletter dated 29 March 2010, you gave a link to an online proxy voting form relating to a change to the AVN constitution. The preamble to the form said: “According to the Department of Fair Trading’s rules, amendments to an association’s constitution require the approval of three-quarters of the members.
Therefore, we need at least 1,400 of you to vote….” Simple maths therefore gives the membership total to be 1,866.
Yet in your “Living Wisdom” email newsletter issued 15 February 2010 you said of her membership numbers: “Those 218 pledges leave about 2,300 members who have not pledged (out of approximately 2,500 AVN members).”
That is a big difference: “approximately 2,500 members” vs 1,866.”
You asked for proof that you lied, you got it.
Meryl, since you’re American, let me respond to this post in American: You’re a lying sack of shit. There’s a job for you at Fox News.
You SAVN folk love to call people liars without providing any evidence of being untruthful. What have I lied about? What proof do you have that I’ve lied? And what has my being American by birth – Australian by choice – got to do with anything?
All your comment demonstrates is that you are a vicious person and worthy to hang with the crowd you are associated with at SAVN.
Thanks for this post. You do amazing work, and we never for one second believed that you would harass this family. It is beyond comprehension how this situation has evolved to this hysterical point :-s
Hopefully you can pass this all to the many media outlets and ask that in the search for truth they should publish your response. I bought the new Scientist (a waste of money but was desparate for something to read when stuck in town one day) and youe issue is mentioned there as well and not in a positive light.
Meryl, if I was you, I would not entertain any more discussion on this matter – until others report on the following;
:- the NCAHS official who took it upon themself to report your discussion with them, to the McCafferys. Why would they do this?
+:- The ABC journalist who made the error should emphatically make a statement acknowledging this.
+:- Independant medical advice on how whooping cough can be diagnosed at time of admission to a hospital rather than following tests.
+:- Independant medical advice as to why blood transfusions were administered to a child with whooping cough
+:- Independant medical advice as to why an enlarged heart did not ring alarm bells to the hospital at that time – and why that they immediately diagnosed whooping cough. I suggest they erred.
The witch-hunt currently in progress, is exactly that. There is no investigative journalism happening. I said in a previous comment that hysterical journalism is the only journalism available now, because of the money involved. People do not have time to investigate and the findings would certainly not suit their agenda anyway.
That’s why answers to the above questions are currently not available. All of those involved should be ashamed of themselves and it is fortunate that you have written this blog, exposing a true scam which unfortunately has entrapped innocent people.
Hello Meryl,
I was one of the participants in the recording of the Channel 7 Sunday Night program at which the McCafferys and yourself were present.
I can remember during one of your responses that you expressed your heartfelt condolences to the McCaffery’s for their loss.
I also remember you expressing shock to a statement that the McCafferys had been receiving unpleasant email from AVN members. You also firmly stated that you hoped no AVN member could do such a thing.
Sadly, neither of these responses made it into the final program.
Now, after following this affair for some time and seeing the amount of hate-filled email generated by some groups supporting the McCafferys and opposing the AVN, I really think its time for the McCafferys to provide some evidence for their accusations so that it can be investigated.
From all I have witnessed, my concern is that any emails and harrassment in question may have come from a very different source to the one they have imagined.
I agree Fran. We have seen in the past that the SAVN mob will stop at nothing – absolutely nothing – to cause trouble. They actually posted disgusting comments filled with foul language onto a certain wine page using my name and the names of several other AVN supporters in an attempt to discredit us. We have the proof of this because we have both the posts and the IP addresses they were posted from.
Therefore, what would stop them from sending the McCafferys nasty messages in the name of AVN members. It is time for these messages to be produced or for the accusations to be withdrawn.